Host

The Garrison Institute co-founder, urban visionary and award-winning author Jonathan F.P. Rose.

Guest

Daniel Goleman, PhD, is a psychologist, science journalist, and internationally renowned author best known for pioneering the concept of emotional intelligence. His groundbreaking book Emotional Intelligence transformed how leadership, education, and personal wellbeing are understood worldwide. A former science writer for The New York Times, Goleman has authored numerous bestselling books exploring emotional intelligence, mindfulness, compassion, ethics, and ecological responsibility.

Read and download the full transcript.

Show Notes

00:00-02:14
Host Jonathan F.P. Rose introduces Dan Goleman — psychologist, science journalist, and author whose work on emotional and social intelligence has reshaped leadership development, education, and personal wellbeing.

02:14-05:58
Goleman recounts his upbringing in Stockton, California, and the influence of family friends and early mentors. He describes his academic journey to Amherst and Harvard studying clinical psychology, where a chance encounter with Richard Alpert (Ram Dass) introduced him to Eastern concepts of awakening and consciousness beyond material success.

05:58-12:37
Goleman discusses how his Harvard training focused on bringing patients from “pathological” to “normal,” whereas his time in India inspired him to think more deeply about wellbeing and wholeness. This connects to the indigenous idea of two-eyed seeing — blending Western science with contemplative insight. Discussion of the emphasis on engaged compassion of Asian spiritual leaders and yogis.

12:37-17:30
Goleman traces the term “emotional intelligence” to a 1990 academic article by Peter Salovey and John Mayer and describes the four domains of his own model: self-awareness, self-management, empathy, and social skills, with emphasis on the role of empathic concern in leadership.

17:30-20:15
Rose and Goleman reflect on the impact of Emotional Intelligence on business schools, leadership development, and broader cultural understanding of what it means to lead with heart.

20:15-21:01
Goleman offers an evolutionary perspective on emotions and social behavior, explaining how cooperation gave humans an edge, but remnants of competitive “othering” persist and can be problematic today.

21:01-25:35
Goleman discusses neuroscience research on mindfulness — from basic breath awareness to interpersonal mindfulness — and how these practices enhance attention, calm, resilience, and openness. Rose and Goleman explore how Western individualism has narrowed our sense of self and undermined community. They argue for expanding our sense of interconnection to support the common good, compassion, and collective wellbeing.

25:35-28:35
The conversation shifts to economics; Rose introduces meta-economics, a whole-systems approach that integrates social, ecological, and individual wellbeing into economic measurement and incentives.

28:35-35:32
Goleman reaffirms that the behaviors of individuals within a system influence systemic change. Discussion of the role of individuals, values, and social convention in systemic change. Goleman also emphasizes the need for transparent feedback — such as lifecycle environmental data from production and business impacts — to inform decisions at scale. 

35:32-37:02
In closing, Goleman advocates practices that build attention, compassion, and group connection, emphasizing that individual transformation supports broader social change when grounded in community and accountability.