Host

The Garrison Institute co-founder, urban visionary and award-winning author Jonathan F.P. Rose.

Guest

Dr. Monica Gagliano is a pioneering experimental biologist, educator, and researcher whose work explores plant intelligence and bioacoustics. Her innovative experiments reveal that plants can learn from experience, anticipate environmental changes, and communicate with each other, challenging traditional notions of plants as passive organisms. An associate professor at Southern Cross University in Australia, Monica’s interdisciplinary approach integrates scientific rigor with insights from meditation, shamanic practices, and indigenous knowledge, bridging the gap in science between experiential understanding and empirical investigation.

Transcript

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Show Notes

• [03:21] Monica reflects on the path that led her to study plant acoustics, including early experiences studying marine life at the Great Barrier Reef. 
• [08:28] She describes the day she had to collect, and kill, fish to document her research, and realized the fish had lost their trust in her. After swimming happily with her every day beforehand, they seemed to know her intention to harm them and refused to swim with her.
• [11:10] Monica reflects how this moment was pivotal for her, highlighting the ethical and relational dimensions of her research, and forcing her to conclude that all sentient beings are aware participants, and scientists must consider the impact of their interventions.
• [13:38] Monica lays the groundwork of her early thinking and experiments on plant bioacoustics.
• [18:00] Monica observes that plants respond to environmental cues, make decisions, and adjust behavior in ways that challenge the traditional notion of plants as passive organisms. These studies reveal memory, problem-solving, and relational awareness in plants. 
• [20:56] The Mimosa experiments demonstrate learning and long-term memory. Plants initially reacted to harmless drops but learned to ignore them while still responding to novel threats. These experiments show that plants process information and retain memories for weeks, revealing a sophisticated capacity for adaptation.
• [26:00] An evolutionary perspective emphasizes that all elements of the universe—rocks, water, plants—are equally old and evolved. Monica integrates meditation, shamanic drumming, and other experiential practices into her scientific work, showing that relational awareness can inform and expand research.
• [30:20] Modern science is evolving to recognize relationality and interconnectedness. Isolating subjects in experiments can miss ecological complexity, while embracing subjectivity and the observer’s role provides richer insights. Historical examples include Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle and the work of G. Evelyn Hutchinson.
• [34:25] Monica describes recording electrical signals from the forest during an eclipse, observing that trees anticipate events up to 14 hours in advance, organizing energy and reducing entropy. These findings demonstrate the forest to be an integrated, information-processing system capable of complex collective behavior.
• [47:00] Monica shares a mystical experience in which the forest answered her sense of despair with an affirmation of its own resilience and regenerative intelligence. Simultaneously, a ranger points out to her that new tree species have been emerging in response to environmental challenges. Both experiences illustrated for her the ecosystem’s ability to adapt and maintain balance, highlighting the depth of consciousness and resilience in plant systems.
• [52:08] Life creates conditions conducive to life. Dying trees and the beetles that feed on them recycle nutrients for new growth, while mushrooms and mycelium facilitate energy transfer. Monica suggests there is reason to hope, given the natural regenerative processes of life.
• [53:42] Closing reflections emphasize the value of quieting human ego to perceive interconnected consciousness. Integrating relational awareness enriches scientific understanding and everyday life, showing that humans are part of a living, conscious web of nature.