Host

The Garrison Institute co-founder, urban visionary and award-winning author Jonathan F.P. Rose.

Guest

Otto Scharmer is a Senior Lecturer at MIT, founder of the Presencing Institute, and creator of Theory U, a framework for leadership and systems transformation. He is the author of Theory U and Leading from the Emerging Future, and works with leaders worldwide to advance awareness-based change and collective action.

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Show Notes

• [02:26] Otto Scharmer reflects on growing up on his family’s biodynamic farm in northern Germany and explains how regenerative agriculture shaped his understanding of systems change. He introduces the idea of “social soil”—the invisible conditions of relationships and awareness that determine the health of social systems.
• [05:12] Otto recalls his involvement in anti-nuclear and peace movements as a young person and describes the experience of sensing a future possibility that does not yet exist, but feels necessary and real.
• [07:18] He discusses refusing military service, meeting peace researcher Johan Galtung in Berlin, and discovering a model of scholarship devoted to social transformation. He explains his doctoral work on transforming capitalism “as a revolution from within” and the realization that theory alone was insufficient to help practitioners create change.
• [11:42] He shares what brought him to MIT, his interest in the work of Peter Senge and others, and how his interest in organizational learning led him to explore new approaches to leadership and systems transformation.
• [14:49] An interview project with more than 150 innovators and thought leaders reveals a central insight: transformative leaders learn not only from the past, but also from emerging future possibilities. These leaders articulated the idea that the future is not far off, but is a possibility whose potential is taking place right now, waiting for me to manifest it: it will not come to pass without my engagement.
• [20:15] Reflecting on his early years at MIT, Otto explains how not having answers taught him the value of deep listening and helped shape his approach to leadership and change.
• [25:29] He introduces Theory U through a formative insight from former Hanover Insurance CEO Bill O’Brien: “The success of an intervention depends on the interior condition of the intervener.” Otto goes on to outline the three core capacities at the heart of Theory U: open mind, open heart, and open will, and explains how they cultivate curiosity, compassion, and courage.
• [31:38] He describes the first movement of the U process, “co-sensing,” which involves going to the edges of systems and listening deeply to emerging realities. Next he explores the practice of “presencing”—connecting with deeper sources of knowing and sensing what is seeking to emerge through us.
• [35:48] The conversation turns to the third stage, co-creation, a way of bringing emerging possibilities into reality. Otto summarizes the essence of the process in three words: attention, intention, and agency.
• [39:15] He reflects on why presencing and deeper forms of human knowing are becoming increasingly important in an age shaped by artificial intelligence. Jonathan introduces Otto’s concept of a “Second Axial Age,” drawing parallels between today’s global challenges and the transformative period that gave rise to many of the world’s wisdom traditions.
• [44:12] Otto shares his perspective on the current moment as an “axial threshold,” describing both the breakdown of existing systems and the emergence of new forms of awareness, collaboration, and regeneration.
• [51:33] He argues that humanity is witnessing the birth of a planetary movement that is not yet fully aware of itself, and explores what new forms of collective action may be required to meet planetary challenges.
• [54:12] Otto concludes by reflecting on the relationship between attention, intention, and agency, and the opportunity to cultivate new capacities for collective leadership and social transformation.